U-Boots-Kriegsabzeichen

[humble collector]

I have this very nice condition U-Boat badge that is unmarked. Opinions on the possible maker ? I’m thinking it’s an unmarked FO.

[Adrian]

One of the Bacqueville badges. French made, some say during the war, others say after the war but I think now the thinking is post war production.

There have been a few posted over the years, try a search for 'Bacqueville' and you will see some discussions about them.

They only produced Kriegsmarine badges with the exception of the Minesweeper and Blockade Breaker.

[humble collector]

Thank you for the info Adrian. It is an exceptionally well constructed badge. Controversy is kinda the nature of this hobby.

[martinw]

Post war French made IMO.
By the way Adrian,a French made Minesweeper badge does exist.I think Norm has one.

Cheers,Martin.

[humble collector]

I’m going to have to acquiesce to Mr. Gordon Williamson “ Torpedoes Los” reference book. He states that it’s a controversial piece.However, he states that they are generally accepted in the collecting community due to the die struck zinc construction, and other materials. Just the fact they were made by a firm in Paris is a controversy in itself

I knew I had a reference book somewhere

[Adrian]

Post war French made IMO.
By the way Adrian,a French made Minesweeper badge does exist.I think Norm has one.

Cheers,Martin.

You're absolutely right Martin, I forgot Norm's badge. I just refreshed my memory, it's the only one I can remember seeing.
It's strange, the most common Kriegsmarine badge is the scarcest Bacqueville badge.

[Norm F]

You're absolutely right Martin, I forgot Norm's badge. I just refreshed my memory, it's the only one I can remember seeing.
It's strange, the most common Kriegsmarine badge is the scarcest Bacqueville badge.

Yes, disturbingly strange! Logically in terms of numbers of personnel, you'd expect a lot of Minesweepers if they were wartime manufacture (although foreign-made awards were disallowed by the PK in the end without official permission). This may suggest they were made post-war such that badges popular with collectors like U-Boats and S-Boats are more common than Minesweepers and Marine Artillery badges. However, a single badge extant rather than just a small number may also suggest that the mold broke prior to mass production. We still don't know the answer.

I’m going to have to acquiesce to Mr. Gordon Williamson “ Torpedo Los” reference book. He states that it’s a controversial piece.However, he states that they are generally accepted in the collecting community due to the die struck zinc construction, and other materials. Just the fact they were made by a firm in Paris is a controversy in itself.

Gordon's book is an excellent reference for its time but some of the information is out-of-date. Subsequently, it's been proven by Jo Rivett with micro-photography that the French-made badges were indeed die cast and not die struck, and the wide main pins were cast as well. Also, although referred to in the past as "Bacqueville", that firm has repeatedly denied manufacturing them and there's no evidence they actually made them, although Bacqueville certainly did market some of them in the 1970's complete with those unique cartons they came in. On the latest collector's poll on WAF, most (but not all) believe they are post-war manufacture. For the holdouts, there remains the possibility that they were unofficial cast production in wartime but disallowed by the PK and the Kriegsmarine so never issued and just gradually leaked into the collector market post-war. Either way, never owned or worn by Kriegsmarine personnel.

Another candidate for the manufacturer mentioned in the past is Mourgeon which remains a distinct possibility since Mourgeon (and others) made cast regimental pins that are reminiscent of the style of the French-made KM badges.

In the absence of definitive evidence either way, collectors will have to agree to disagree, although I think all will have to concede that regardless of when they were made they were never officially issued to KM personnel during wartime.

Best regards,
---Norm